Well, a big question for me is if the Fluxx supports DV-avi.

I have a huge collection of home-movies in DV format, shot with my old HI8 and D8 camcorders.
It took me quite some effort to capture all those tapes and now the collection is completely accessible as native DV avi's.

But, my POHD does not play them !
And it takes a lot of time to convert the sources into another format which can be played.

So, for all those millions of people who have shot and are still shooting their home movies of weddings, holidays and other interesting stuff with their DV camera's, it would be nice to have at last a media player which plays them.

In fact, when advertised well, it is a feature which could get a mediaplayer standing out of the crowd and gives it a nice extra marketing opportunity.

DV AVI is a Windows file format which Microsoft would like to forget. It is extremely wasteful on storage space with a compression ratio of between 3:1 and 5:1. A modern PC could convert to H.264 codec in real-time or better and give no perceptable loss of quality. I have hundreds of camcorder tapes and would never consider transferring them to DV AVI that would be like transferring them to Betamax or some other obsolete format.
FLUXX probably has more resources to support differnt codecs so it would do little harm to add the feature but I think you would do well to convert your important files to a modern format.

Well i think we should remember what the original DV format is all about. It's an intraframe(I-frame) compression scheme, meaning it compresses video on a frame-by-frame basis, facilitating editing.

I think it will get added to media players eventually, but i've yet to see one which supports it.

It's around 25 MBps including a 1.5 Mbps lossless 16/48 2-channel LPCM track. It does require a bit of processing power to decode, but less so than H.264 for instance.

Well my opinion on this.

There are several reasons why you have to archive your original tapes and why the DV format would be in some cases the best option. You may think, just keep the original tapes as archive.
These tapes are a goldmine. In fact I think the most important items people have at home are the photo's and the collection of home movies. I can say I would risk my life only getting my harddisk(s) from my home when it is on fire which contains my life on photo and film.

Keeping them on tape will eventually give the problem that your old camcorder (which will be replaced by new ones) will eventually cease to work. So no means playing the footage any more. And also, the magnetic tapes decrease in quality when played and when stored for long times.

So you have to get the contents of the tapes to a more portable digital format and the first format will be DV-AVI. This is the format in which the film is transfered from camcorder to computer.
1:1 without quality loss. The DV-AVI is as-is on tape.

So why not encode the DV-AVI to another format?

Well, first of all the DV AVI is suitable for editing. Converting the AVI to another format will always decrease the quality. And editing that decreased footage will decrease it further.
So quality wise, the 1:1 tape copy as DV AVI is the best option.

Another one is datecode. The DV AVI contains datecode stream which holds the date and time when the footage is shot and also other data can be present. This info is very important when editing the footage.
There is no way to retain the datecode in another format. At least I did not find any solution to get this information from the DV into say AVCHD format (mts).
This means when you have archived the numerous tapes into a non DV-AVI format, you loose this info which is after some time very valuable.

The issue of DV AVI size is not a very good argument nowadays. The storage sizes have increased and at the same time the costs decreased. So no actual need to compress the 5:1 ratio any further.

And there is the time involved converting the DV AVI footage into another format. Which format should it be then? The choice is numerous and the average consumer does not have the knowledge to choose a correct format and use the right profile/settings. This could lead in having not optimized footage quality which will be with you for the rest of your life.

I look at a "mediaplayer" to be a player which plays the most popular formats as-is. And tries to play all kinds of formats to be a player to play anything. At least, the perfect player would be.

And let's face it. The home movies being the most important along with photo's and millions of people still shooting in the DV format and having piles of tapes it is for me clear that the DV format should be playable on a mediaplayer.

And what I said earlier, if an AcRyan player as the Fluxx plays this format it has this extra feature which people seek and has this extra marketing opportunity which stands out from other players on the market.

I have personally disappointed many people who were looking at my POHD and said they were going to buy the player also not knowing that their home movies in DV format can not be played.
And I could not recommend another player which can.

So, can I suggest the Fluxx or not?

(ps. I have found somewhere on the net the specs of a new SIGMA media chipset which actually lists DV as supported format. I can not find it right away, but the choice of the Fluxx will be depending on this issue alone. My current POHD plays the modern formats without problems, so a new player will replace it only when it plays my raw home footage. And when a SIGMA player can play it, a SIGMA player it will be).

/EDIT
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/media_proce ... erview.php

Dear Xymox I think you make an excellent case for why the FLUXX should support DV-AVI, but just to add my two cents...
For technical reference only ...
Only true for a digital format. Analog format camcorders like VHS VHS Video8 S-VHS Hi-8 etc all use a custom format on the tape which is converted to PAL or NTSC on playback. Formats such as VHS and Video8 have a horizontal resolution of about 240 lines and vertical resolution roughly the same. Hi-8 and S-VHS have a resolution of about 400 lines all formats have the same awful color resolution at about 80 lines. Transferring any of these formats to analogue broadcast standard digital file at 768 pixels per line respresnts sigignificant oversampling to be considered lossless. Digital formats like DV, D8 and VHS-D are native DV formats at 720 pixels per line which can be stored in AVI files without conversion.

Only worth transferring to make them more accessible. If you want to watch the original footage without editing or clean up then no conversion is required if you have a compatible player.

Timecodes can be stored in lots of containers including M2TS, MKV etc. however most programs discard the original time code so you would have to scrape it from the DV-AVI and put it in the new container. Maintaining the date code is a compelling argument for not converting since it would be difficult to retain given how conversion programs work these days.


I think if any media player on the market were to play DV-AVI then it should be the FLUXX after all AC Ryan do claim their players play the widest range of formats on the market. Personally I will continue to convert my camcorder footage to H.264 because I have losts of old analogue stuff that needs editing and clean-up. To each his own I guess and the FLUXX should support that individuality.

The Fluxx should have enough processing power to decode a DV stream, meaning even if there is no code for the video dsps on launch(or later) it's not entirely implausible there may be a successful community effort to grant this highly sought-after feature.

A friend of mine did what you're describing. He converted his entire DV library to rather low-quality H.264 using an ElGato h/w encoder. I agree this produces very poor results, and is a far cry from watching the originals. Especially night vision shots from the old PC100 look terrible with his lame encodes, and it's a shame too because some of those shots were the best in the collection...

I think the issue with DV is that it's obscure outside Europe and the US, i bet the devs barely have DV files to test with(maybe we should send them some). Could perhaps be a licensing issue, afraid to implement it, worried they'll catch heat in the EU? I find this to be highly unlikely.

I think for now we just have to edit out the good bits that we really cant loose and do quality manual encodes with x.264, personally i would keep scan mode, and around 8-12 Mbps video bitrate, straight FLAC for sound. It's possible depending on brand and at least one cut in the camera that there will be audio de-synchs, due to the nature (and consumer-orientation) of the DV format.

Even the current PlayOn!HD product lines (1073DD etc) have enough processing power to decode DV avi, they just don't have the memory to support every codec out there and since it is a firmware based OS there is no provision to add codecs for the end user.

The Fluxx is based on the Intel Atom 4100 series and is definitely robust enough but the area that almost guarantees it is that it will probably be a linux distro OS which you can add any codec you wish to it. If not then install your own linux based OS and run XBMC over the top.

PS I posted a link to a comprehensive review of the Fluxx by Anandtech here,
http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=11790

And the direct link,
AnandTech review

Doh! I somehow got the notion it would be based on Windows Embedded. But you are right linux makes alot more sense.

Well, can an official from AcRyan comment on this?
Will the Fluxx play DV avi or not.

The mediaplayer arena is getting a lot of promising new players and I want to know if I can keep my focus on this new AcRyan product of start looking around for others.

Probaly not

Video Formats Supported
AVI / MKV / TS / TP / TRP / M2TS / MPG /
MP4 / MOV / M4V / VOB / ISO / DVD-ISO
/ IFO / DAT / WMV / ASF / RM / RMVB / / BD-ISO
FLV resolution up to 720p / 1080i / 1080p


If it was supported it was mentioned on the product page.