Joop, as I said before, it looks like they decoding the TrueHD track to Multichannel LPCM and are then passing the LPCM track to the receiver. This should, if done correctly, preserve the high quality of the HD audio track.

Downmixing is indeed not the same as pass-through. I have been following this thread for a while and have been reading with amazement that downmixing is placed on the same level as pass-through which it clearly is not: Downmixing is a general term used for manipulating audio where a number of distinct audio channels are mixed together to produce a lower number of channels. Also known as fold-down. Basically what the Xtreamer and all the others, claiming TrueHD playback, is converting it into something else and then play it. On the forums of for instance the Xtreamer, you can read that the license for both TrueHD and DTSMA has not yet been signed.

The source for where it says the Xtreamer does downmixing and NOT pass-through: http://www.xtreamer.net/xtreamer/featur ... ixing.aspx

There you can read that they ARE working on licensing the technology, just like AC Ryan (edited on 2010/01/07 17:03):

If you like you can read almost identical posts about TrueHD and DTS MA requests on their own forum: http://forum.xtreamer.net/viewtopic.php?p=71085#p71085

To be clear: I am in NO way related to AC Ryan other than that I bought one myself. So I think I can safely say I am unbiased on this issue and can't help but see the same discussion on TrueHD and DTS MA on both this forum and the Xtreamer forum. The licensing just has not been settled yet and since such things are usually lengthy processes I think all we can do is wait for the licensing to be dealt with or move on to another player. Now I am quite happy with the player without support for TrueHD or DTS MA since I don't have any hardware that supports it.

However I can also understand people who have bought the POHD thinking it would handle such high def audio, and after buying it discover it just doesn't support it, are disappointed. I did read an official notice from AC Ryan that they are working on getting the license. Getting angry with AC Ryan therefore doesn't speed up the process (as someone on the Xtreamer forum said, quite on the money if you ask me) and is not exactly the fault of ACRyan. If one were to be angry at someone, I think Dolby would be a nice and warranted target for your anger since they are the ones keeping the audio market in their iron fist and are so fussy about licenses. They have been for ages...

Thank you finally someone who understands the situation

\o/ Party time.

PS. Bear with us, peoples.

Unless i have completely misunderstood, your statement is not 100% correct..

AC Ryan are still working on the licensing issue for DTS downmixing.
This issue is supposedly the same for Xtreamer and all other manufactures using the realtek chipset.
DTS downmix is still not possible due licensing issues although i am puzzled how Xtreamer have managed to overcome this?

I agree with you TrueHD is another topic, although that is not something ive been following.

I think I may have written it down in such a way that one at a quick glance can mis-read... what I meant was:

There you can read that they ARE working on licensing the technology, just like AC Ryan...
Downmix is not possible indeed, as far as I know that is.

Thank you very much for your reply Azalin.
Finally someone who can explain the situation properly.

Im happy to read the other brands are probably producing less quality HD audop codecs.
As audiofile I prefer to experience the codecs as they are ment to be. No manipulation please !
Just for the record -Im not angry-. Im just a critical person.

I fully understand, we as first person consumers are sometimes Beta tester.
Therefor I have no problem with this situation at all. As long as the result will be as promised.
I can remember the nice DTSHD en DD TrueHD logo's on the website

Just to be exact, here is what you can do with HD audio e.g. with Dolby TrueHD
(please correct me when I'm wrong!)

1 - Ignore it/ Unknown audio format -->PlayonHD (and almost all Realtek-based players with no license)
2 - Decode and Downmix to Stereo PCM (usually license required)
3 - Decode and Encode to (lossy) Dolby Digital (AC3) (usually license required)
4 - Decode and passthrough as (lossless) Multichannel PCM (usually license required) -->Xtreamer???
(That's what the "old" PS3 used to do, usually you would not notice the difference in sound quality)
5 - Pass-through as (untouched) Bitstream (usually license required)

For DTS-HD (might also work for some Dolby TrueHD tracks) there is also a possibility 3b (as well as downmix to Stereo PCM)
3b - Pass-through of DTS core (abviously, no DTS-HD license required) -->all Player with license for DTS passthrough

First of all, I have no clue about licensing but from what I've seen and what I've heart you need a license for pass-through as well as decoding. According to ACRyan, Realtek does not seem to have any of those for HD-audio. Eugene, can you confirm that?
I'm asking, because Xtreamer claims to be able to do step 4. I don't know weather that's true or not since they actually need a license for (internal) decoding of Dolby TrueHD. But, that was my point of the discussion, if they can do it, then ACRyan should actually also be able to do so. And that would be a big step towards full HD-audio support!

And I know, ACRyan has no direct influence on the license issue between Realtek and Dolby/DTS. And I don't believe that Dolby/DTS would provide ACRyan with an exclusive license.

[EDIT]
Looks like the Xtreamer only supports Alternative 2. Well, I have no use for that
http://forum.xtreamer.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=10130

Perfect Neuendorf. Tnx! for your input.

Again a step closer....
Lets hope ac ryan will be pro active, and takes over this issue.

I don't know what you are getting at.

The POHD can already get the 5.1 Core Audio from the DTS-MA track for quite sometime already. It can also downmix to stereo as well.

What gave you the idea that it can't downmix. (The problem now with DTS-MA on the POHD is it can't offer the full DTS-MA Lossless bitstream or LPCM decoding )

On the subject of True-HD, it is the biggest problem now, because you can't even get any sound on the POHD.

Not true.

If you purchased this product when it was initially released like i did then this feature doesn't work because of some kind of licensing issue.
AC Ryan have been working to resolve this issue since Aug 2009

There are plenty of threads on this topic already.

Lets hope that Realtek listens to his manufactors and customers :0)

And solves this as soon as possible with Dolby

Guess I was referring to the 1073DD model. Not sure about the older 1073DA model.

Thanks for your input Neuendorf.

I disagree though on the no use front for the TrueHD downmix to Stereo.

At leat my kids could watch their movies rather than getting Unsupported Audio Format!

A.C. Ryan, if Xtreamer can do it...???

I agree that it is not a substitute, but surely a step in the right direction in the interim?

Can somebody from AC Ryan confirm this statement is factual?

One would assume your design team know exactly what the product is capable of yet sources state that this is not a licensing issue but is a limitation of the hardware?

There is still no official response from Realtek about this issues so we can't tell you.

I know you dont want to hear this but it's the only news we can give you at the moment.

Hi Kraakie, no disrespect but i specifically asked an employee of AC Ryan to respond as i don't believe you or the other moderators would have been told such sensitive information.

Other Realtek chip products have already acknowledged that this is not possible and never will be (I believe DVico are developing there own software solution).

The latest news I heard are that the problem is on the HDMI output of the players (Realtek base), they can't encrypt the stream outside (even if it was already decrypt inside)

As mentioned, no official response from Realtek.
Everyone waites

What is confusing is if it does turn out to be a hardware problem, then did realtek lie to the manufacturers and for how long and state its a license problem? or did the middleman lie to the customer as up until recently all quarters were claiming a license issue. Is there any spec anywhere that realtek claimed hd audio passthrough from its inception

any news on this topic. Will perhaps AC Ryan introduce a new device capable of bit streaming 7.1 dts or dd